Hi Bev

Mindfulness is a therapy which may involve meditation:

"Mindfulness practice is based on the premise that only in the experience of the present moment can one accurately perceive what is really happening, when life is fully appreciated without the need to judge it, and when effective action can be taken".

There is also Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy, which has been shown to be effective in treating and preventing relapse in depression.

These are (fairly-new) mainstream therapies used in the NHS and there is good evidence of their effectiveness. Some of my Clinical Psychology colleagues use them in their work with great success. If offered this treatment I would give it a go!

Did you also see the TV programme about meditation and its effectiveness last week?

Love

Gwyn

A postscript to my previous post: I am not, of course, suggesting that meditation is effective in curing cancer, only that it can be helpful at times for psychological health.

Gwyn and Bev,

On 'therapies'. It is as you both imply, the need to recognise what is appropriate and for what purpose - and with what hope. I have counselling (person centred), reflexology and hypnotherapy. The latter two are provided by generous and caring friends.

My main purpose in all of these is to counter anxiety and to find calm. The reflexology evolved out of a foot massage, and combined with breathing exercises has given me great comfort. The reflexology mapping of the feet onto the body is an optional extra that I do not have to agree to. The hypnotherapy is linked to NLP visualisation work, and again I do not buy into it any more than to help with practical problems.

The one thing that is clearly missing from my portfolio is regular exercise - which is so necessary in combatting depression. This came up clearly in the recent discussion around the effectiveness of anti-depressants. I was a keen cyclist before my illness.

The exercise that I do get is limited to gentle walks around the block and my physio exercises. I am intending to get more physical activity when the weather improves.

On mindfulness and meditation. I certainly think that these could be useful. A friend gave me a copy of Full Catastrophe Living which promotes these approaches. I have been unable to develop skills with either, but will keep on trying. My visualisation ability is itself a bit erratic.

I am indeed wary of 'bad science' and try to read Ben Goldacre's column of that name in Saturday's Guardian. But I was recently excited by coming across a magazine and website that promoted 'intergrated' cancer therapies - the relationship of orthodox, complementary and alternative therapies. They seem very responsible and balanced, but the presence of alternative therapies is something to be wary of. It was not always clear when you were entering into the alternative, until reading an article on Spagyric Medicine!

A quick question. Is pro-biotic clinically proven? Or is it mainstreamed alternative therapy? I ask cos the lines are so unclear.

I may well have taken pro-biotics in my recovery from the effects of radio+chemo if I was not so careful with my PEG.

I did not see the meditation programme (Prof Kathy Sykes at Bristol?) but I did see the previous hypnotherapy prog. The dental pain control scene was surprising.

Must stop there, but I am interested in continuing these themes and similar.

Best wishes to all

Kateman's husband Martyn.

Hi Martyn

It is always interesting to hear about what other people find helpful. I have had some training in hypnosis. When I was diagnosed last year I felt the need for some help and was too panic-stricken to be able to do self-hypnosis so I contacted an ex-colleague of mine - a psychologist who works in oncology and is very skilled in hypnosis. I found it very useful in helping me to relax; my colleague suggested that it was because of the hypnosis that when I had my operation my tumour was smaller than expected, but I shall reserve judgement on that!

I found the programme on meditation very interesting and have been thinking that I might learn to do this myself. I videoed the hypnotherapy programme though I haven't had the chance to watch it yet, but I have seen some very interesting films on the effects of hypnotism during my training. I am very much a rationalist though so would reject any of the more extreme claims (past-life regression for example!).

I don't really know whether pro-biotics are clinically proven or not but my dietician did tell me that there was some evidence for them when she recommended them to me after my operation and also said that she takes them herself. I did drink probiotic yoghurts before my operation because I had read that they protect against c.diff (not that I need have worried because everything on Kinmonth was so clean and the staff were fastidious about hygiene). The other thing that I take regularly is vitamin D as again I have read that there may be some evidence that it is protective against cancer (this was recommended by a doctor on another website I visit because of my previous breast cancer)and at least it can't do any harm!

As I said, an interesting topic and probably a lot more to discuss yet.

Best wishes

Gwyn

Hi Gwyen,
I have been following these posts and the last one above this post was really hyper interesting. I really would like to read more on hypnotherapy and what are the exact claims they make onthe same. I notice you mention you are a rationalist and would reject any of the most extreme claims, but would you like to elaborate a bit and tell me as why you would reject such claims? At times rationalism does take a backseat. What do you feel?

Lots and lots of love and of course xxx and hugs,
Ananth

Hi Ananth

My, you do like to keep me on my toes, don't you!

Of course you are right about rationalism having to take a back seat at times - one of those times possibly being when we are faced with our own mortality, as I suppose many of us on this site have been; I think we may then start to think more deeply about these things and perhaps consider things we had previously dismissed out of hand as irrational.

About hypnosis - there is some evidence that it can act as an effective analgesic and that it can be helpful in easing some physical conditions. It can also be used to help people overcome fears and anxiety. Some people believe that hypnosis can be used to take people back to a time before they were born to prove that they have lived previously (and that things that happened to them in their previous lives may be affecting how they feel and function in this life). But this is something I do not accept and I would need very convincing proof to be able to do so.

The strange thing about hypnosis is that no-one really knows what it is or how it works! The tutor on my course described it as a means of "putting to sleep the guardians on the gates of the unconscious" so that we can access parts of the mind that are usually hidden to us. One thing I do believe is that the human brain/mind is a wonderful and interesting thing and there is much we do not yet know about the way it works.

Sorry to have gone on at some length, but this is one of my interests.

Lots of love
Gwyn xxx

Dearest Gwyn,
That was an interesting post and there is no reason for feeling sorry as I enjoyed the post. Its something that I can derive from and thats always helped me.

I still have a whole lot of questions for you on this topic but will not post them here as I would like to let this thread remain as it is.

I am especially interested in the Hypnosis bit of it. I really, irrespective if we know or do not really know how it works, would like to go for it. It would certainly be an adventure. What would you say, if I did go through it and gave you all the details as recorded? Maybe - you will be convinced or I would just take it as something I did and worked or not. Either way, I would not step down from going for it.

You see in India - though I am not a true believer in Hinduism or any other religion for that matter, I do believe in a past life. There are a number of things that point that it is a strong possibility and feel I could give you a few instances to ponder over. Its not a question of convincing you but one you could think over.

lots and lots of love,xxx and hugs,
Ananth

Ananth - you are right - we do seem to have hijacked this thread. I think we should continue on a PM.

Martyn - I hope we haven't strayed too far from your topic; as I said before,I think it is really interesting to discuss these things

Best wishes
Gwyn

hi gwyn martyn ananth and everyone
thanks for your recent posts gwyn and martyn they really are deep and meaningful . do you know of any basic books which i could read to reflect on these sciences something not too hard to digest
i am all for self help as a complimentary therapy
thanks bev x

Gwyn

No I do not regard recent contributions as a hijack - please carry on.

On hypnosis. Although participating in hypnotherapy I have not been hypnotised to date. I have been deeply relaxed, and half asleep, but not under hypnosis as I understand it. I hope at some point to be in that state. Meanwhile I will continue on calmness and relaxation - and work toward mindfulness.

Best wishes

Martyn

bev:

Will certainly try to think of some books and get back to you as soon as I can. I am with you on this - taking control for ourselves can only make us stronger.

Martyn:

Thanks for that. My understanding is that 10% of people are highly hypnotisable, another 10% find it impossible to be hypnotised and the rest of us are somewhere in the middle - I know I am, although I love being hypnotised for the feeling of relaxation it produces! It is possible to get better and go deeper with practice. Good luck!

Ananth:

I will be in touch very soon to discuss your proposal!

Love to all
Gwyn x

The point of hypnotherapy for me is to help me get away from the feelings of failure and isolation that are imprisoning me. I have become so withdrawn and despondent. The desire to be calm has become a sort of trap. Calm has become a way of avoiding doing anything that challenges my passive and withrawn condition. I am looking for ways to break out of my invalid status, but it is so difficult. I do not feel that medication is the way forward. At the moment I spend most of my time laying on the bed listening to Radio 4 and the World Sevice - which means that I am very up to date with all of the bad things going on in the world!

Help, I am in a deep hole and cannot climb out of it.

Best wishes

Martyn

Dear Martyn,
I have been following all your posts very carefully and can well understand what you are going through. You have taken a beating much more then most of us and are still there hoping things will get better with time. There is nothing better then hope and things will get better with time.
I am not one to give too many any serious advise on how to get over ones feelings - but know one thing - I am alive and so are you. It would do great wonders if there was someway I could help you get over your fears and depression. I only know one way and thats what has kept me sane - to look at life in the eye and rule my own life. I know if I start moping, its not just I who is crying but am also making so many others - my wife,my sons, my mother and on and on cry and go into depression. I keep myself from going to the bottom by trying to be as positive as possible with life and how it has changed my entire life. I do look at the past - but only the happy moments with nostalgia and nothing more. I live for now and as long as I do that on a positive note - life is pretty much ok. Tomorrow is another day - so why worry about it today? just carry on that way and all your depressions just fast forward so fast that you cannot keep up with it and let fun, joy and hapiness be your mantra for today and each of the todays' that follow.

You just cannot keep a good man down and when things get tough - the tough get going!!! BOY!!!! am I good at this!!! Martyn ..... that was my funny bone talking but on a more serious note - keep posting and se how much better you feel with the replies you will get. Life will certainly start looking much brighter!
You are not in this war alone - and you can depend on anyone here for any kind of help and I am sure you must have realised that by now. So as my quote above : Just rise and get on your feet as you just cannot keep a good man down.( I have just added a few more words ).

Lots and lots of love and hugs ( I dont kiss men!!),
Ananth

Hello Martyn

It is not surprising, as Ananth says, that you are feeling low. You have been through such a lot over the past year and it is very early days yet. You are having to adjust to a different sort of life from what you thought you were going to have and that is so difficult. Although I did not have anywhere as near as bad a time as you I did lose all my certainties and am still re-examining my priorities. The idea of thinking positively is not always helpful when you are at this place - there is also a need for realism and acceptance and this can be harder to achieve.

You say that you don't think medication is the answer but I wonder why that is. If you are really low it can sometimes be helpful; I see it a bit like taking painkillers if you have a broken leg - it helps to control the pain while healing is taking place (I don't see medication as the complete answer just an adjunct to all the other things that can help). But everyone has their own views on this and has to make their own decision.

One thing that is often suggested is to set yourself very small goals each day. Achieving these can sometimes increase feelings of control and worth. But you probably know this already. You said that you are having counselling - are you finding this helpful?

As Ananth says again - keep posting and we will all be here for you.

Very best wishes
Gwyn

Ananth

This is a reply to your earlier post about hypnosis and past life regression. I must admit I was slightly perturbed when you suggested that you would like to try this. I suppose my main concern is that there are a lot of charlatans out there and you would need to see someone who knows exactly what they are doing and is able to support you if the hypnosis (for whatever reason) brings up any feelings that are difficult for you. I do care about you and would not want anything to happen that might harm you!

I believe I am open-minded enough to consider any evidence you may come up with but I cannot guarantee to be convinced whatever you might find.

Perhaps we can continue this conversation later.

Love and hugs

Gwyn xxx