Hi all, I didn't want to hijack Pams thread so thought I'd start an NHS debate here.
Is it better than the USA and it's health policy?, do NHS staff care? etc etc.
I think the NHS is as good as you can expect for free at point of delivery and if you want more then you should pay for it.
The majority of nurses and Drs I work around definately do care but I know that there are a some that dont. If you work around or are a patient of someone who has stopped caring then it should be brought to the relevant managers attention.
One thing though, there are way to many managers and most of them are way out of touch with reality.
Well that's probably kicked it off but I've no intention of starting World War 3 here , just a bit of a debate. I'm well curious about how/if the USA style works so maybe someone can enlighten me. Hagg.

Good grief, Haag! Why not ask for the history of the world in ten easy sentences?

I'd love to get into this with you and I actually began typing what is my understanding of our health care in the US. It is so huge and complicated that I thought I'd find an easy internet source with an intelligible summary. It doesn't exist. I checked Wikipedia for an easy out but it's TLDR (too long, didn't read). Here it is anyway.

US Healthcare

Me? I have excellent coverage and consider myself fortunate to live in an area with some of the best research facilities, teaching universities and medical facilities available. The forty million citizens who are uninsured along with the underinsured (the working poor) do not have my advantages. I believe we are all entitled to affordable health care but selfishly realize that my own level of care may suffer for it. (That's a whole 'nother story.)

Our Social Security funds are supposed to dry up in 2025 or thereabouts along with Medicare. SS is pretty much like what your pensioners receive and Medicare is very inexpensive health care for those 65 and older and those who are disabled/handicapped in some way. In the same vein, NHS is supposed to run out of funds even before this. We all live in denial, I'm afraid, and somehow we think it'll all be taken care of. That magical thinking may be part of what got us all in this mess.

I've gone back and forth with this for a while. There are some things far better in your system (and the Canadian system - the other that I am most familiar with) and some things far better in ours. Too bad we couldn't combine the best of each so we can all profit.

I'll think about this some more and perhaps I'll be back. Maybe not!

Take care buddy,

Mimi

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I've had some right experiences with the NHS. My mother aged 78 had a major stroke 5 years ago and has never recovered. She has recently been in hospital. She fell one night, the paramedic came out and said nothing was broken. Well the next day she couldn't walk so the GP came out. He ordered an ambulance to take her to hospital for an xray. The ambulance arrived at 7.30pm. By the time she'd been seen in hospital it was 1.00am so they decided to admit her because she'd had to sleep on a trolley in A&E with a suspected broken hip. The xray results eventually came back that there was no break. However, 2 weeks later she was still in hospital. They finally discharged her after I kicked up a real fuss - what were they actually treating her for? elderliness?? it seemed that nobody actually knew why she was in there. Her discharge notes said that she was brought in with heart problems! I think the staff need treating for communication problems. Elderly care is non existent in the NHS. Anyway I must go now and phone BUPA lol

Hi Hagg, yes good idea, not fair on Pam having a debate on her thread. I have had some horrific incidents in the NHS, and some very good ones.

My main gripe is with our local hospital in Walsall. It just seems like such an amateur operation, there are many good staff, but a lack of care in many instances. Considering the government can find money for europe, and all the rest of the nonsense they can waste money on I find it hard to believe they can reject treatments for cancer, like the drug for Liver Cancer NICE has just rejected.

I heard the NICE spokesman saying sorafenib is not economically viable for Liver Cancer patients given its price and the fact it only extends patients lives by 3 months- but who the hell is he to play god. If it was his wife, child or parent I would love to turn round to his and say oh sorry its going to cost too much to help them, were just going to leave them to die.

And as for people saying our system is free, of course its not free, we are taxed through the nose in this country, and then you are treated like a sponger for using the services you have paid for.

When my mom was admitted with the PEG that went wrong the consultant who she was under made it quite clear he did not give a damn, spent probably 10 mins with her in the whole 2 weeks she was in hospital, and I couldnt help but think if my mom was paying he would be with her night and day.

I came out of hospital every day wishing we had private cover, and when I can afford it, its my TOP priority to join BUPA. How sad is it that im left feeling like that.

Again though I must say the specialist cancer centre in Birminghams QE hospital is amasing, the staff are great and the NHS does save lives, so mixed views. I just think we need more competition, which is difficult to achieve in a monopoly, better quality wards, and the patients should be the boss, not the doctors or hospital managment.

Its difficult to give examples of how the NHS is failing. They are jacks of all trades but masters of none, and I just think America will be going down the wrong path if they go for universal healthcare.

I may not be PC but I tell the truth guys! Its funny I do feel quite angry towards the NHS, and the incompetant ENT consultant who misdiagnosed mom for months..but still whats done is done.

Will be interesting to see how the complaint we have made goes, they are taking a long time to reply, and the oncologist mentioned he had been asked to provide his views on the scans mom had so will let you all know how it goes, but mom is still planning on taking matters to a solicitor, if they dont take us seriously.

Sorry for the long reply, I just feel very strongly on the subject.

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As might be expected, the battle rages on here over healthcare reform. There is far too much anecdotal information (I prefer statistics) but it seems that everyone has a story. My favorite political website reports such a story every day and this is one that is quite recent.

Insurance runs out for 12-year-old boy without arm

After reading the article scroll down to the Comments section. That's what the debate is like.

Mimi

I found in my local hospital that if you go in to be treated for something serious (e.g. cancer, heart attack etc) then you get well looked after in 99.9% of cases. If on the other hand, you go in for a non life threatening condition (e.g. hernia, broken arm, sciatica the list goes on....) then the overall treatment is not so good. That is simplifying and generalising somewhat but that's how I see it on a day to day basis.

Is there a country in the world with a really enviable health care system or does it just depend on how much money you have?.
My wife has relatives in Ukraine who live on a self sufficient small holding in the countryside.
When her cousin went to hospital to have her appendix out (under local anaesthetic) my wifes aunty had to give the Dr a few of her geese to ensure the op was done quickly and then the family had to nurse her in hospital because there was no nurse available. Sounds almost laughable but it is true. Looking at it from that angle I'm glad I live here in the UK.
If I lived in the part of the Ukraine they live in then I am sure I would have died in 1997/8. Hagg.

Once my cancer was positively diagnosed the NHS moved extremely quickly.
I was on the operating table within two weeks approx.

The shame is that the cancer made me ill about 7 months beforehand and the NHS spent that time "monitoring" me until the all important biopsy was performed. Secondary tumours had spread to my neck lymphs. I was stage 3b/3c.
This late diagnosis cost the NHS far more money than if I had been diagnosed earlier. It had a huge detrimental effect on my mental health too!!

tony k

All of Trevor's treatment was done through the public health system and we couldn't fault it. I don't know if we were just lucky or if someone who didn't have the same 'fluid' run through the system is unlucky.
If we had any complaints at all it was simply about personal attitudes of a couple of people and fortunately these were outnumbered a hundred to 1. Were they just having bad days? It happens to us all.
Like you, Hagg I always think of how fortunate we are living in the countries we live in. Really I cannot imagine how dreadful life must be for a huge percentage of people in this world and that helps me to deal with whatever I'm faced with (which is basically nothing really). I remember waiting in the emergency dept when Trevor was transferred last year after his obstruction being diagnosed and there were many people there (the ones doing the most complaining!) who were presenting with fly symptoms or upset stomachs ~ not what you go to an ED for, and expecting to be seen right away.
To stop people clogging up the hospitals like this, we are seeing more medical centres going up about the place ~ 24 hours surgeries that have GPs, xray facilities that type of thing. It seems to me that most people just don't understand how sick you can be, and expect someone to drop everything and see to their runny nose when it suits them. I have seen people look down their nose when Trevor was called into the local emergency dept within minutes while they clearly have been waiting for some time. Everyone's personal drama or trauma is more dramatic or traumatic to them than someone else's, eh?
I feel I can't complain because really, I would not have the foggiest clue how to go about 'fixing' the medical system. There are lots of complaints here about waiting times etc but it seems to me that if your situation is life threatening or extreme, you get the attention you need. I'm sure no health professional WANTS anyone to miss out on one form or treatment or another, the reality is in the numbers wanting access. Someone who needs a hip replacement would obviously believe it should be done asap, though. How do you work it out????
Best of luck with the debate. I hope you can come up with some answers. Unfortunately it does take money to be able to provide the services that we all expect to get right when we want them. Unfortunately we are all just one of many hundreds/thousands/millions with the same expectation ......... ( I also imagine that if the health system, in whatever country, provided all the services that everyone wanted, when they wanted (HUGE expenditure) then we would all be unhappy about the condition of the roads we had to travel over to get to our appointments!) We humans are a demanding lot!
Cheers
Deborah

Thanks for posting that link, Mimi - a fascinating debate; I got so involved in reading it that I almost burnt the roast vegetables I had put in the oven! A few people do seem to have some very strange ideas about what is happening in the NHS.

I have found, like Hagg and Deborah, that when I have had something serious (or potentially serious) I have been well looked after by the NHS. If we have something that is not life threatening, and have to wait around a bit longer or don't get treated quite so well, then surely that means, since the NHS does have a limited amount of money, that we have got our priorities right. I cannot complain about the tests I have had or the quickness of my diagnoses (for both my cancers), although obviously others have had different experiences. Once my tongue cancer was diagnosed I did have to wait around for longer than I would have liked for my operation (and longer than I should have, according to government targets) but that was because there were other people in a worse state than me, and I accepted that.

I dread to think how much the various treatments I have had must have cost and am so thankful that we have the NHS so I didn't even need to think about this at a time when I was feeling so terrified.

I remember watching a television programme about NICE and the decisions they have to make. It was certainly thought-provoking and made me realise that I would find it impossible to weigh up what a few more months of life for one group of patients would be worth when compared with other conditions the money could be spent on; I know that if it were me I would be desperate to have the extra time but would wonder if it were justifiable when there are so many demands on the Health Service.

I work for the NHS myself and know that it is certainly not perfect. Communication from doctors to patients is not always good, care is not as joined up as it could be and there is not enough support for peoples' emotional and psychological needs. But I also know that there are many committed staff who work extremely hard and care very much about the service they are giving.

Best wishes
Gwyn

We cannot doubt that we are very lucky to live in a country where we have a health service at all. And throught moms treatment I have thought about the countless others around the world who I imagine get no treatment at all.

However that said, its not an excuse for some of the failings of the NHS, we all need to work together to get it working.

Things moved quick for mom when they diagnosd her, but again it was the length of time they spent watching and waiting if you lik, and waiting for scans.

The NHS is good, but could be much better, I agree that they caanot be all things to all men, but the important area such as Heart care, and cancers need to be given priority. You shouldnt have to do battle when you are ill, as I have had to for mom.

Hi everyone, sorry I have been out of the loop for some time.

I urge everyone in the UK to get down to the library (just in case anyone thinks I have a cash interest, otherwise go on Amazon and buy one) and get a book titled 'Squandered' by David Craig and turn to Chapter 2, this explains a lot about the NHS.

This book gives referenced facts about the billions of pounds that are wasted in the NHS. This book has fired me up so much - I have to tell you I am seriously thinking of standing as an independent MP at the next election.

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