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Diagnosis and management of unknown primary tumour
Head and neck cancers can present with the occult (hidden) primary never being found. This can be worrying to patients. Several of our members have had unknown primary tumours. The Mouth Cancer Foundation has therefore registered our interest in the development of this guideline. I would be grateful to hear from members who were diagnosed as having an unknown primary tumour. Disclaimer: Please see your own dentist/doctor for a proper diagnosis as my words should not, in any circumstances, be taken as dental/medical advice. "If you see what is small as it sees itself, and accept what is weak for what strength it has, and use what is dim for the light it gives, then all will go well. This is called Acting Naturally." Lao-Tsu, Tao Teh King |
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Hi Doc!
I don't know just what you want to know. I had excision of initial lump and it was a secondary, then removal of 'iffy' right tonsil which turned out to be OK. Then modified radical neck dissection where two more lymph nodes were found to be secondaries. A PET/CT scan a month after surgery showed 'no masses' but 'greater uptake in both tonsils'. Still no primary. Deb's concern (and mine) is that after I finish chemo and r/t, how will they determine the success or otherwise of all that I've had done? I still think they've got me mixed up with someone else!! I'll be eager to hear what comes of this discussion Trev |
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Just a quick query on the subject of unknown primaries, Vinod. How common/uncommon is this?
Deborah |
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Hello Deborah
I will be able to answer your question better after the guideline development group at NICE meets! Meanwhile, you should find these articles helpful: Metastatic Squamous Neck Cancer with Occult Primary (PDQ®): Treatment Neck Cancer, Unknown Primary Site Best wishes Vinod Disclaimer: Please see your own dentist/doctor for a proper diagnosis as my words should not, in any circumstances, be taken as dental/medical advice. "If you see what is small as it sees itself, and accept what is weak for what strength it has, and use what is dim for the light it gives, then all will go well. This is called Acting Naturally." Lao-Tsu, Tao Teh King |
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Thank you Vinod.
I'm out of practice at reading all that jargon, however got the general gist of it all and frankly it has made me feel scared all over again. As I've said in an earlier post ~ I want to take my bat and ball and go home. I really don't like this game. I/we look forward to further details. Cheers Deborah |
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The Mouth Cancer Foundation has been invited to a meeting for the Unknown Primary Cancer Guideline development.
The date for the meeting is Friday 15 February 2008. The meeting will start at 2pm (with refreshments from 1.30pm) and is expected to last until 4pm. Representation is limited to two people per organisation. The Mouth Cancer Foundation represents the interests of patients and/or carers. We would like to ensure that at least one of our representatives is a patient who has had the experience of being treated for an Unknown Primary Tumour in the head and neck area. It is an opportunity to ensure that issues of concern are considered for inclusion in the scope. Please note that although NICE will reimburse reasonable 2nd class travel costs and subsistence costs, it is unable to cover loss of earnings or locum costs. Please contact me through the private message facilty if you have any comments you wish to raise or are interested in attending. Best wishes Vinod -- Dr Vinod K Joshi BDS(Singapore) DRDRCS(Edinburgh) FDSRCPS(Glasgow) FDSRCS(England) Founder and Chief Executive Mouth Cancer Foundation Disclaimer: Please see your own dentist/doctor for a proper diagnosis as my words should not, in any circumstances, be taken as dental/medical advice. "If you see what is small as it sees itself, and accept what is weak for what strength it has, and use what is dim for the light it gives, then all will go well. This is called Acting Naturally." Lao-Tsu, Tao Teh King |
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Hi Dr Joshi
We would love to have feedback from this event if possible. I'm sure that everyone here has a certain degree of anxiety in relation to a return of their cancer and as happy as we are with Trevor's progress, we both acknowledge a fear that it is still lurking somewhere since the primary source of Trevor's cancer was unknown. It would be lovely to have some before and after shots of a dead or shrinking tumour. Cheers Deborah |
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Hi Doctor Joshi,
Could you give details of where the meeting takes place please. Tony K. |
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Hi Tony
The meeting is at Towers Perrin, 71 High Holborn, London, WC1V6NA. Best wishes Vinod Disclaimer: Please see your own dentist/doctor for a proper diagnosis as my words should not, in any circumstances, be taken as dental/medical advice. "If you see what is small as it sees itself, and accept what is weak for what strength it has, and use what is dim for the light it gives, then all will go well. This is called Acting Naturally." Lao-Tsu, Tao Teh King |
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Join the guideline development group for metastatic malignant disease of unknown primary origin(Closes 3 March)
Disclaimer: Please see your own dentist/doctor for a proper diagnosis as my words should not, in any circumstances, be taken as dental/medical advice. "If you see what is small as it sees itself, and accept what is weak for what strength it has, and use what is dim for the light it gives, then all will go well. This is called Acting Naturally." Lao-Tsu, Tao Teh King |
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Hello Dr Joshi
Were any members of the MCF able to take part in this group? What were/are the outcomes? Shame we're so far away. Cheers Deborah |
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Hello Deborah
Unfortunately, I could find none who could attend. It also clashed with the Nationa Cancer Survivorship Workshop that a number of members went to. Will post any news about the outcome when it becomes available. Best wishes Vinod Disclaimer: Please see your own dentist/doctor for a proper diagnosis as my words should not, in any circumstances, be taken as dental/medical advice. "If you see what is small as it sees itself, and accept what is weak for what strength it has, and use what is dim for the light it gives, then all will go well. This is called Acting Naturally." Lao-Tsu, Tao Teh King |
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Thanks Dr Joshi
Mostly I don't even think about Trevor's cancer and sometimes I do and can't believe that the last year unfolded as it did and then there are those fleeting moments when I just wish we had seen a picture of that primary ~ before and after surgery and treatment! Where is/was the damn thing? Never mind, I'll look forward to any 'unknown' news. Cheers Deborah |
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Management of the unknown primary carcinoma: long-term follow-up on a negative PET scan and negative panendoscopy.
Head Neck. 2008 Jan;30(1):28-34 Miller FR, Karnad AB, Eng T, Hussey DH, Stan McGuff H, Otto RA. Department of Otolaryngology-HNS, University of Texas Health Science Center San Antonio, 7703 Floyd Curl Dr., San Antonio, Texas 78229.
Disclaimer: Please see your own dentist/doctor for a proper diagnosis as my words should not, in any circumstances, be taken as dental/medical advice. "If you see what is small as it sees itself, and accept what is weak for what strength it has, and use what is dim for the light it gives, then all will go well. This is called Acting Naturally." Lao-Tsu, Tao Teh King |
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Maybe I am a bit late to enter this thread as it's been a while since any post so my experiences may be too late now anyway.
My secondary was found (lump to side of neck) and after 3 FNA test found to be malignant but no sign of primary. I then had MRI scan with no result followed by a combined pet/ct scan which resulted in no primary found. I was being treated under the barts MDT. At their next meeting they recommended removal of both tonsils as the most likely site of the primary. Although as far as i know they did no tests (fna etc) to the tonsil. Fortunately for me the tonsil, or one of them at least turned out to be the primary. WAS I JUST LUCKY in this outcome, certainly i no longer have the worry no primary and for that i am very grateful. |
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